Presuppositional apologetics — why bother?

Some of my readers may have endured what has become known as The Fourth Debate, in which the three Pauls of the Skepticule Extra podcast were subjected to the presuppositional apologetic argument of Eric Hovind and Sye Ten Bruggencate. We released it, unedited, as an episode of the Skepticule Record, which is that part of Skepticule intended to archive live events.

I believe I can safely assert that the three Pauls are in agreement that The Fourth Debate was the final word on Presuppositional Apologetics as far as they, personally, are concerned. PA has been shown, increasingly and repetitively, not to work. It doesn't convince atheists, and it doesn't convince those theists (the majority) who claim to have evidence for the existence of God. It appears that PA is only considered valid by those who already hold to it. As an apologetic method, therefore, it's a dismal failure.

For some people, however, this isn't enough. Chris Bolt of the Choosing Hats blog and podcast (though "podcast" is used loosely here, as I can't find an RSS feed that encloses the media files, and have had to download them manually)* has been commenting on the aforementioned episode of the Skepticule Record in obsessive and tedious detail. There are currently four editions of "Praxis Presup" covering The Fourth Debate — numbers 12, 13, 14 and 15. Two-and-a-half hours of commentary (including clips of the "debate" itself) is a lot, and might perhaps be worth it for a "debate" that ran for an hour and nine minutes, but Chris Bolt's commentary in these four editions of Praxis Presup covers only the first half-hour of our podcast. Apparently there's more commentary to come, but based on what's been released so far, I've no incentive to listen further. (An added disincentive is the appalling sound quality of Praxis Presup. I hope Chris Bolt's listeners don't think the podcast we released is of comparable sound quality to the clips he played.)

All of which leaves me with a nagging question: for whom is Praxis Presup intended? Certainly not atheists, who — if they bother to listen — will only be confirmed in their conviction that PA is nonsense. Evidential theists won't be convinced, as PA claims their approach is invalid. The only people who will agree with Chris Bolt's analysis will be presuppositionalists themselves — and why do they need this, if they are already convinced by PA?

It's a mystery.

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*It's been brought to my attention (thanks Fergus!) that there is indeed a working podcast feed for Praxis Presup: http://www.choosinghats.com/category/podcasts/feed/

A funny thing happened on the way to the Royal Albert Hall

It was yesterday, and actually I was already there, attempting to take pictures of the various flag sellers, when I was accosted by a gentleman brandishing what appeared to be a "Flip" video camera, who asked me if I'd like to take part in a "Vox Pop":

http://www.winkball.com/entries/MrWdBOWYKRvC/&t

So of course I said yes.

Blog-dearth excuses: Skepticule Extra

My blogging schedule has gone to pot, that's clear. I kept up the one-post-per-day for over eight months, until other things (life, or something masquerading as such) impinged on my daily creative output. Here's an example — the Skepticule Extra podcast comes out every fortnight on average, and the most recently published show features an interview with Matt Flannagan of the MandM blog. He talks about the Euthyphro dilemma and Divine Command Theory:

http://www.skepticule.co.uk/2011/09/skepextra-013-20110821.html

And there's other stuff. Enjoy.

(The next show, number 14, will be published any day now.)

Burnee links for Sunday

Links all from RD.net, mostly circumventing the Times paywall:

The Wonder Years - The Times Leading Article - The Times - RichardDawkins.net
A leader sparked off by excerpts from Richard Dawkins' new book for children. (Note that a forthcoming episode of the Skepticule Extra podcast will be dealing with science education.)

[UPDATE - audio]Evolution? Children do Adam and Eve it - Richard Dawkins - The Times - Eureka - RichardDawkins.net
This is the Eureka article to which the the Times leader (linked above) refers.

Attack of the Theocrats! How the Religious Right Harms Us All- —and What We Can Do About It - Sean Faircloth - Pitchstone Publishing - RichardDawkins.net
Alarming to note that a book like this is necessary in the officially secular US. How much more are such warnings needed in the UK, where state religion puts secularism at a disadvantage?

Leading bishop hits out at Dawkins for reducing ‘faith into ignorance’ - Ruth Gledhill, Religion correspondent - The Times - RichardDawkins.net
It's truly laughable that the quotes chosen are perfect examples of scientific impossibilities, and yet the bishop apparently thinks it insulting that Dawkins points them out to be so. But miracles by definition are occurrences that contradict science. Miracles, fairy tales — how is one supposed to tell the difference?

‘Children are indoctrinated. I want to open their minds' - Alexander Linklater - The Times - RichardDawkins.net
More in the Times: an interview about the new book for children.

17th October — Stephen Law vs William Lane Craig

Polly Toynbee, president of the British Humanist Association, was due to debate William Lane Craig, to kick off his October tour of the UK. She pulled out once she realised what kind of thing a debate with Craig is, and philosopher Stephen Law has stepped in to take her place.

I had decided not to attend the debate, as I was getting pretty sick of Craig's debating style. He does these things not in an effort to explore the arguments, but to "win". We saw this with two recent debates, first with Lawrence Krauss, and then with Sam Harris. Both Krauss and Harris have interesting and original things to say about their particular areas of concern, cosmology and morality respectively. But Craig isn't concerned with learning from either of them. Perhaps though, Krauss and Harris learned something from Craig — but it would not have been anything about the evidence for God, or the moral necessity of God. They may, however, have learned how to score superficial debating points — not that either of them would have been interested in doing such a thing.

So I decided, as noted above, that I was done with Craig and his "Reasonable Faith Tour".

I have, however, reconsidered. Previously I decided not to attend a conversation between Sam Harris and Giles Fraser (regular readers will know how much Fraser irritates me), but later regretted my decision, because when I changed my mind I discovered all tickets were sold.

To forestall potentially similar regrets I do now have a ticket for the Craig vs Law debate at Westminster Central Hall at 7:30 pm on Monday 17th October. Partly this is because I'm currently reading Stephen Law's new book, Believing Bullshit, and partly because of all those put up against Craig on this tour and elsewhere, Stephen Law seems likely to be the most capable of tackling Craig on his own terms. Perusal of his blog indicates he's not taking the debate lightly (he is, at least, getting plenty of advice).

Naturally you can expect a full report.

Burnee links for Thursday

Spirituality: It’s only human! - On Faith - The Washington Post
An older post from Paula Kirby's On Faith column. She's not saying anything new to me, but it nevertheless needs saying, again and again. Maybe, just maybe it will eventually sink in to the religionists that they have no proprietorial exclusivity on morality.

Guerilla Skepticism and Wikipedia
I've often fancied having a go at editing Wikipedia, but I'm aware what a time-sink that endeavour can be. Susan Gerbic has some suggestions for where to start, and why (with a specific — laudable — goal in mind).

Forget What Did: Everything in the garden is rosy.
A cheerful disposition is such a valuable thing to possess...

Ten Things Everyone Should Know About Time | Cosmic Variance | Discover Magazine
Take time to read this list. Some of the items are surprisingly non-intuitive.

Greta Christina's Blog: The Santa Delusion: Why "Religion Is Useful" Is a Terrible Argument For Religion
Don't be like Slartibartfast: "I'd far rather be happy than right any day."

More on objective morality

Here's the latest video from that scourge of theistic obfuscation, NonStampCollector. What's interesting about his approach here (apart from his unusually minimal wielding of the subtle, awesome power of Microsoft Paint) is that in order to make his point he takes on board almost every assumption and presupposition tacitly proposed by William Lane Craig — and still shows why they lack foundation.

http://youtu.be/zXO26pObTZA


The whole question of morality — objective, absolute or otherwise — is now receiving much-needed scrutiny, and the theistic (particularly Christian) proprietorial claims on it are being shown for what they are — unfounded, vacuous and arbitrary.

(Via Fergus Gallagher.)